ABOUT DEBORAH LEE:

Ms. Deborah Lee retired as the director of NOAA’s Great Lakes Environmental Research Laboratory (GLERL) on February 28, 2025. In her former role, she was responsible for conducting integrated scientific research on the Great Lakes and coastal ecosystems. Ms. Lee also served as NOAA’s Regional Team Lead for the Great Lakes, facilitating collaboration across 800+ NOAA employees and partners representing the agency’s diverse capabilities across the region. Ms. Lee has 40 years of experience in water resources and ecosystem research and management at NOAA and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE).

Prior to her NOAA assignment, she served as the Chief of Water Management, USACE Great Lakes and Ohio River Division from 2001 to 2014. In that role, she directed lower Ohio and Mississippi River flood control and oversight of Great Lakes regulation. She served a detail as the Acting Regional Business Director and Dam and Levee Safety Officer from July 2013 to July 2014. Ms. Lee is a licensed professional engineer, certified professional hydrologist, and board certified by the American Academy of Water Resources Engineers. She has received multiple awards, including three Superior Civilian Service Awards, recognitions from the International Joint Commission and the Mississippi River Commission, and the 2017 NOAA Research Inclusion and Diversity Award. She was the recipient of the 2022 American Society of Civil Engineers President’s Medal for her service to its Environmental Water Resources Institute and the EWRI 2024 Lifetime Achievement Award. She most recently received The Ohio State University College of Engineering 2024 Distinguished Alumni Award. Ms. Lee holds bachelor’s and master’s degrees in civil engineering from The Ohio State University and completed post-graduate environmental engineering studies at the University of Michigan

ABOUT LISA WOZNIAK:

Michigan League of Conservation Voters

/

michiganlcv.org

Lisa’s career spans over two decades of environmental and conservation advocacy in the political arena. She is a nationally- recognized expert in non-profit growth and management and a leader in Great Lakes protections. Lisa is a three-time graduate from the University of Michigan, with a bachelor’s degree and two ensuing master’s degrees in social work and Education.

Lisa serves a co-host and content partner in 89.1 WEMU’s ‘1st Friday Focus on the Environment.’

RESOURCES:

Michigan League of Conservation Voters

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)

NOAA Great Lakes Environmental Research Laboratory (GLERL)

TRANSCRIPTION:

David Fair: The structure of government in the United States is changing. And as it does, programs, services, and agencies we’ve relied on are facing uncertain futures. I’m David Fair, and welcome to the April edition of 89.1 WEMU’s First Friday Focus on the Environment. How it all ends up, we don’t know, but we do know there are already impacts to be dealt with. Among the agencies affected is the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. The Trump administration has been clear in its criticism of NOAA calling it, and I quote, “one of the main drivers of the climate change alarm industry.” So far, NOAA, as it’s called, has lost about 1,300 employees due to resignations and layoffs. That’s what we’re going to explore today. My co-host and First Friday partner is Lisa Wozniak. Lisa is executive director of the Michigan League of Conservation Voters. And always good to see you and talk with you!

Lisa Wozniak: Thank you, Dave! It’s always a pleasure to be here! And as you have pointed out, there is a great deal of concern and consternation when it comes to federal cuts. And in the case of NOAA, the fear is that cuts to this agency will only make the fight against climate change more difficult. Many of our listeners know that we have a leading NOAA research lab right here in Ann Arbor. And until recently, the director of that lab was Deborah Lee. I’m glad to say that we are going to get an insider look at what’s happening there because Deborah’s on the other end of our phone line. So, thank you so much for joining us today, Deborah!

Deborah Lee: Yeah. Thank you, David! And thank you, Lisa, for inviting me! I do need to say up front that I retired effective the end of February, so I do not represent the agency or any of my other professional affiliations.

David Fair: Fair enough, but you certainly do have some insides and some experience. And I’m just curious if it’s not too personal. When you left NOAA, was it by choice to retire or was it because of the circumstances?

Deborah Lee: It was by choice. I had planned more than a year ago to leave on that particular date. However, what was unplanned, or unknown, was the day after my retirement reception, 20% of my staff were dismissed.

Lisa Wozniak: Wow! So, that is a question that we have for you. What has been the overall impact on staffing? You say 20%. Has there been even more since that time to the Great Lakes Environmental Research Lab?

Deborah Lee: Not at this time. My understanding is they are in their third phase of looking at reductions, potentially a reduction in force. As you may know, the first wave was the fork. The second was firing of the probationary employees. And the third wave is reduction in the force. But, to my understanding, that is still in progress.

David Fair: Well, let’s talk function. I’m not sure that I personally have a full grasp of all that NOAA does, and I’m quite certain I’m no alone. Can you tell us a little about what the mission of NOAA and the function that the Ann Arbor lab has in serving that mission?

Deborah Lee: Well, the laboratory in Ann Arbor has a focus–a geographic focus–on the Great Lakes. And the lab does chemical, physical, and biological research that provides information on the state of the Great Lakes to managers and decision-makers. And then, the lab also uses that research to develop predictive computer models, like our Great Lakes Coastal Forecast System that predicts waves, water levels, currents, ice cover, and oil spill and harmful algal bloom movement. And that information goes out to the general public as well, so that they can be prepared for events. So, NOAA overall looks after our oceans and our atmosphere and does that fundamental science that lets us understand the state of the earth’s system.

David Fair: WEMU’s First Friday Focus on the Environment continues, and our guest today is Deborah Lee. She is the former director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Great Lakes Environmental Research Lab in Ann Arbor. The other voice you hear is that of my First Friday partner, Lisa Wozniak from the Michigan League of Conservation Voters.

Lisa Wozniak: Deborah, you’ve mentioned the research and the work done specific to the Great Lakes. With the cuts that have happened and are projected to happen, what will be the impact on our Great Lakes from the diminishment of staff and talent?

Deborah Lee: We have a reduced ability to publish our science and get that science out to the decision-makers and those who manage the Great Lakes. So, there could be impacts to our fisheries, to understanding the status of invasive species and their impacts. And in the event of a potential oil spill, we may not be ready to be able to address that spill, at least from a scientific perspective.

David Fair: With the existential threat that’s presented by the climate crisis, what avenues of progress in that effort in the Great Lakes region may be cut off?

Deborah Lee: One of the things that the laboratory has been doing long-term is monitoring the water temperatures of the Great Lakes, particularly the deep waters of the Great Lakes. And we’ve been the only agency that has been doing that. And what we’re learning from that is that the heat from climate change is now being stored in those deep waters and their temperatures are rising. And that can have a very fundamental impact on the whole cycle of the Great Lakes.

Lisa Wozniak: So, when I think about Michigan and the water in our Great Lakes, they literally define us. And so, when we look at NOAA and the Great Lakes research lab as part of a greater whole, this is not only about our water, but it’s about the health of our air and our land and the people. So, if you could dive a little bit deeper into this, what are the impacts to human health and the people of Michigan because of what’s happening?

Deborah Lee: Well, Michiganders love to recreate on the waters of the Great Lakes. We know that tourism is a major economic driver for our region. And if we aren’t able to predict conditions at beaches, say, for example, from harmful algal bloom or fecal contamination, then people can be harmed when they go into the waters if there’s a harmful algal bloom present. So, that’s just one example. Another is many like to take their boats out on the lake. If we’re not there to predict impacts of storms and then have those issued as marine forecasts on the Great Lakes, we’ll see loss of life and impact to both commercial and recreational boaters. I like to point out that since the Great Lake, Coastal Forecast System has been in place, we’ve not had a major sinking like the Edmund Fitzgerald since it’s been operational.

David Fair: Once again, we’re talking with Deborah Lee on WEMU’s First Friday Focus on the Environment. Deborah is the former director of NOAA’s Great Lakes Environmental Research Lab in Ann Arbor. I imagine morale is low among NOAA employees, including those in Ann arbor. Given the trajectory of this administration and its positioning on environmental protections and proactive climate initiatives, are you at all concerned that there is a longer-term impact in that less people will seek out this kind of work?

Deborah Lee: We are concerned about that. I am very proud of the staff at the laboratory. They work very hard. They have a Midwestern work ethic. They work long hours. They work more than eight-hour days during the field season. They’ll work up to 14-hour days in rough conditions on research vessels with little human comfort. Right now, the folks that are there have their heads down. They’re working hard to do the mission as best they can and really, again, just trying to work through this disruption that has been one that has followed years of disruption.

Lisa Wozniak: Deborah, you’ve spent a career in the realm of science and environmental protection and stewardship. Now that your time at NOAA is at an end, do you plan to continue working in this arena in some capacity?

Deborah Lee: Yes, I do. I am currently on the governing board of the American Society of Civil Engineers. And in that capacity, we look after the status of the nation’s infrastructure. And so, we just released the 2025 report card. And we noticed that we did have incremental improvement from a C-minus to a C to the expensive investments that were made under the infrastructure investment.

David Fair: There was a C for the nation and a C-minus for the state of Michigan.

Deborah Lee: That’s correct. Michigan still has a C-minus.

Lisa Wozniak: Well, as our time together comes to an end, I’m sure you’ve experienced some of what I have, and that’s members of the public reaching out to express concern about the funding and service cuts, but also to convey a sense of hopelessness. What are you telling people that, as individuals or in a more collective sense, they can do to help continue environmental and climate stewardship?

Deborah Lee: The best thing that people can do is to let their congressional representatives and senators know that they value the environment and that it plays an important role in our economy and in their lives. And so, reach out and please let them know that this is important to you!

David Fair: Deborah, thank you so much for the time and perspective today! We do appreciate it!

Deborah Lee: Oh, you’re very welcome! Thank you!

David Fair: That is Deborah Lee. She served as director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Great Lakes Environmental Research Lab in Ann Arbor until earlier this year when she retired. And today, she’s been our guest on WEMU’s First Friday Focus on the Environment. My partner in this monthly conversation series is Lisa Wozniak. Lisa is executive director of the Michigan League of Conservation Voters. And, Lisa, I’ll look forward to our visit on the first Friday in May!

Lisa Wozniak: I look forward to it, David! Thank you!

David Fair: I’m David Fair, and this is your community NPR station 891 WEMU FM Ypsilanti. Celebrating 60 years of broadcasting from the campus of Eastern Michigan University!

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