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We have like the perfect storm, we have high interest in national security and AI colliding together, and so it’s it’s transforming the military for sure.

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Welcome to Warrior Money, the show devoted to supporting our brother and sister veterans in Business. I’m Patrick Murphy, and I’m Dan Kons. Today we’re sitting down with Craig Cummings, a US Army veteran and co-founder of Moonshot’s Capital. After serving as an intelligence officer, Craig turned his focus to venture capital.Backing bold founders with a mission, especially our brother and sister veterans. From defense tech to identity verification, he’s helping shape the future by betting on early extraordinary leadership. Please welcome the word money, Craig Cummings. Craig, welcome to the show,

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buddy. Thanks for having me, guys.

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All right, Craig, we always start by doing bottom line up front. So we know how AI has changed everything. So from warfare to the recruits we’re bringing into the military.How do you see it affecting the defense industry overall?Um,

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It absolutely in a word, transformative for sure. I mean, powering.becoming the brain, not that we’re going to offload the brain from the soldier, but we’re going to allow the soldier to supervise the AI brain, I think.From a speed lethality.Really speed though. I mean, I’m, I’m really focused on beyond like defense tech and what AI does.For all of our businesses, defense to is like is speed and how quickly we can make decisions, we can action on targets.Um, it’s, I mean, part of the, I think the what’s the surge in defense and dual use is powered by AI. We have like the perfect storm, we have high interest in national security and AI colliding together and so it’s it’s transformed the military for sure.

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I don’t know where else you get the scale of data that you need to be able to run the actual AI but for in big enterprise like the military, Department of Defense, and some of the other logistics organizations.That’s a great point. Yeah, both, um, Stephen Bannon and President Obama, two very differing personalities, uh, have both warned about the impact of AI on the labor force. How do you, how do you parse the value of it from the replacing humans and workers part of this?

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I mean, I, II think that it will replace many of the tasks. I mean, we’re looking at so many robotics deals right now that aren’t going to be replacing.People in warehouses in delivery, but I think they’re just gonna free up the human for other tasks. So, I think umThere’s reason to be concerned about what’s going to happen to our, our truck drivers. What’s gonna happen is so many.Manual labor jobs that can be replaced by robots, but I also think that.We’re going to shift into another industry that we’re going to train and there’s going to be more than enough for the humans to do.

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It’s crazy. It’s like everything compounds, right? Every, everything compounds and you’ve said before that like it takes 10 years to build a great company. It takes 10 years to build a great company. So as a, uh, veteran, as an entrepreneur, and as an investor, how do you see the shift from 10 years down to different years with the advance of AI?

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Well, I, uh, you’re right. I, I’ve I’ve seen this.More than a handful of times that truly great companies take 10 years. Like you can even ride scout, but Joseph and I did, we, we like had some fast success and sold out to Mercedes-Benz, but, you know, we were still just aThere were like 15 of us, right, at the time, truly building the culture and get it. I, I think a lot of times you’re, you are having to wait on the, on the proverbial tech stack and getting that in order. And so now AI is going to compress that, so.I think in a few years, I probably say, well, it takes at least 5 years to build a great company. I mean, it it definitely.It’s gonna compress, go to market with technology, so I think it will, but I, I still think you pro, I mean, everyone can have their own answer here. You still have to build the relationships, build the trust, and and so, and then that’s when you’re really sort of, you’re gonna hit that.Yeah, one of my,

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one of my favorite things about our conversations have been the, uh, the evolution of like, how do we start a VC firm and then how do we get to a place now where we only invest in stuff that truly transforms the world or we perceive that’s going to transform the world. Where do you see that happening? Like, I know you’re in space. I know you’re in AI. I know you’re in those sorts of areas, but what, what do you, what do you look for markets wise that’s transforming the world now?

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It’s a great point, Dan. I mean, we I’ll just quickly retell, like we, we’re in fun too, now we’re just, we’re finishing out fun 3. We had this aha moment.OhWe were about to invest in a horoscope company. That was crushing it and had a great relationship with like Instagram and was blowing up and then we just listen, wait a second.Is that important? Do we want to tell our kids about how we so.Does that move? We’ve we’ve now the important right, so you’ve said a space, we’re, we’re looking a lot at robotics and then how, and then like the getting the infrastructure in place for robotics, or we’re looking more of those companies, even like um Gretel AI which we sold not too long ago to uh Nvidia, and that was they were doing synthetic data.56 years ago we didn’t even know what they were talking about. Now it’s like the last half a mile in AI, so kind of like getting the plumbing in for robotics, uh, space, you know, dual use is.is really popping. Yeah, why do you think that is?I think we’re, it’s like the China threat is becoming a little bit more real for for us and I think we’re all aware of it now. It had to have

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been COVID, right? It was kind of like the, one of the first real signifiers was like, oh crap, our supply chain is screwed, and we’ve got to go rotate back this way. It’s right.

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Itwas the it was the critical dependency like aha moment, almost said some other words for that.

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Yeah and I and also what’s going on the ground in in in Ukraine, you know, with Russia.There’s no doubt. I mean, that’s not like, you know, and I got bused Army shooters Command. I know it’s in your hometown of Austin, etc. but like we’re looking at what’s going on right now in Ukraine and, and how they’re fighting the fight. I mean, you saw what happened as if, you know, at this point a couple of weeks ago, it’s pretty amazing. You mean the airplanes, yeah,

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yeah, I mean that, that, I mean.Whether it was Pearl Harbor moment or not, it was Pearl Harbor-esque. I think we’re fortunate.That we saw, we saw it happen, it didn’t happen to us because usually the way America roll America rolls exactly right, something happens then we’re like, oh we need to do something about that, but we all saw that.And I know, like, can you imagine how many people walked out on the runway and just looked around at all their uncovered aircraft for billions of dollars,

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100% and 1/3 of the nuclear triads so, so they are now ineffective in 2/3 of their capacities.

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Yes, wild. And then, and then I watched this video that’s been going viral on social media about the number of satellites in space now it’s going by year.And it shows like 1 or 2 satellites like rotating around the planet, then it’s like 3 or 4, then it’s like and then right now, it is like full coverage and so.You can see anything now, right? And you can.So how, if we know we’re being continually monitored, how do we as a military like think about that, how do we position troops, how do we move troops? How do we position?

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And when you look at the 5 areas of 5 battlefields, it’s, you know, space is obviously when it gets contested, it’s gonna be a very interesting dynamic which we haven’t seen really yet. So, so listen, why don’t we just put a pin in that real quick. Uh, we’re gonna, we’re gonna take a quick break. We’ll be right back, more with Craig Cummings right after this.Well back to where money. So let’s pick up where we left off. We’re talking about space, uh, and when you look at, there’s no doubt about it, you know, we look at air, sea, land, cyber.Uh, and space, and, and you look at how it’s getting more and more contested. Um, how is the public-private partnership area of that where we’re partnering with companies as far as market partnering, other countries partnering with private industry. How do you see that’s going?

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Well, uh, it’s going really well, actually. You know, it’s, it’s usually when you talk about public-private, the government, we’re like, ah, the government, they suck at acquisition, they, you know, they’re too slow, and there’s certainly some truth to that, but the, but the, the military and the intel community have been so proactive in trying to partner with the pri private investment. So we actually got selected for a program.Uh, which, as I described it to my mother, it’s like we’re partnering with the Pentagon. It’s an office of strategic Capital, whereThey, we like grip hands to find great companies in all these critical technology areas. So there is, it is somewhat bound and then work with them, accessing government experts, accessing top secret clearances so we can accelerate the growth of these companies. So it’s a it’s an active program out of the Pentagon in partnership with the Small Business Administration. So they’re leaning forward on working with us where I thinkWe used to be like separate, but I think the government realizes if if VC who has or PE name your investment entity.Has dollars from you and your families and your schools, right? And they’re seeing something.The government should at least look at it because they’re seeing a great team with greatPotential for this business scale versus like maybe looking away and say, well, but there’s somebody else who’s doing this and it’s cheaper. Yeah,

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it’s kind oflike our we can talk about all the advantages that we have geopolitically. We can talk about anything that we have notionally.But our greatest opportunity is our allocation of capital and the way we’ve resourced against our side as capitalistic society, right? So like if capital is making investments here, then our largest customers should also be making sure that they understand it as well. Like that’s kind of what we’re talking about. Um, the other part and and frankly, capitalism is really good for both the consumers of it, but also the people that are being customers of it. So we have to support that very nicely, um.I gotta ask you a bit of a nuanced question because I, I’m really, I want to get this in here. Back in 2016, Patrick ran the army.And it was one of the times where the army meet their met their recruiting goals, one of the only times that they met their recruiting goals, I think over the 15 or 20 years, and it was over 60,000 soldiers in the year that they did it. Um.The, the beauty of strategic Capital is that they’re investing in component companies and they’re also investing in the ecosystem of the defense industrial base. If we don’t have the people to support that or the military to support that, I don’t know how we’re going to feel the capabilities that we need. So how did you do it when you were in the army? How did you, what was that thought process like?How did you get to the right sorts of people because it takes 5, 1015, 20 years to get the right people in the field. Yeah,

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and part of it’s a leadership dynamic because you meet people where they are. So it’s 60,000 on active duty, 60,000 in the reserve component. The majority of our soldiers, over 1 million are in that reserve component that National Guard Army Reserve, uh, but you meet the one there, they’re not watching commercials anymore. We were spending 79% of our marketing dollars, about $400 million a year doing television ads.Young cats, these young, my kids, they’re not watching television. They’re watching stuff on Netflix, they’re watching stuff on their phones. And so, you know, we, we switched that gear. We audited the Army marketing office, which pissed people off, but I wasn’t there to make friends. I was there to make sure that we recruited the next generation of Gen Zers to come in to mark America’s varsity team. And I think we’re seeing some smart things and what we talked about earlier, going left the boom and looking atYou know, if you’re a cyber warrior, do you really need to, you know, wear a uniform every day? Do you need to, you know, we want you to be, you know, at the terminal, just taking ass and taking names, you know, for the USA.

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Let me make a point here though. So our, as you, as you both know, our investment thesis is we invest in extraordinary leadership andSeparately separately at the end of the day, nothing’s going in leadership andAt the end the the CEOs separately, the CEO must be able to sell, must be able to raise money, so shipped it over to you.You would go out and do PT with soldiers around the globe. You would motivate them, you would get them excited like it matters who’s doing this too. Like you have to have the whole machine outside the box, but you, you also got to have Patrick Murphy, who just, you just feel it. You’re like, and you’re always like focused on the North Star of the cause and service. You still are today. Just go look at your Facebook. You’re still, you’re you’re you’re still the same guy and that you got, so we.Who’s in the seat matters.

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Yeah, listen, I, I just the other day we, uh, came out the Army hit recruitment goals. I, I pull the signal that that our current sector said AP, congratulations and goals, that’s, that’s a big deal. And you know, he spent D-Day, you know, in Normandy, you know, doing PT with the Ranger regiment guys and so.I do think there’s so many people though in America that want to be divisive, right? I mean people might say, well, hey, Pete’s republic, I’m, I’m a Democrat. No one cares. Like they care about the American soldier, you care about this country, and if people are trying, because our adversaries overseas, they want us to be divided within, and we can’t have that. Let’s talk about leadership. I don’t like to talk about myself. Let’s talk about, I love the fact that, as Dan just mentioned, you invest in dual use companies, you invest in extraordinary leaders. One of those folks was Blake Hall.You told, you know, Dan and I were at your conference in Austin, you know, we, we, we heard you speak about you have two kids, beautiful kids. I got to know him, and you took the 250 that you had saved for Addie, 250 for your son, and you said, you said, hey, this is the college fund, but I’m gonna invest in you Blake call. Tell us the story of that and and Blake Hall and why you did that because, you know, we, we’re early sponsors as well of him and ID me, but we want to hear that to use company and his personalstory.

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Well, he’s, I mean.His energy is just infectious, but if he’s in a room, you’re just gonna walk out with him. I mean, if he’s walking off the ledge, you’re probably walking off the ledge. He just, he, I mean, he was a Vanderbilt undergrad, Harvard Business School, and then becomes a standout performer, bronze star with V Weis in Iraq, comes back, starts at the time, troops swap, troop swap, right? And that’s where he met Kelly early and, and he, my business partner Kelly Perdue.They’re like, they’re like brothers and so I mean that’s like love there. I say I’m, I’m a brother-in-law. Kelly Kelly’s a brother. I’m the brother-in-law. That’s funny. And so, and you know, early on, Kelly’s like you got to fix this cap table. So right in the beginning, it was like tough work to get the, get the capitalization table cleaned up, some founders who weren’t operating the business and so Blake did, and of course he did it in like proverbial 5 minutes. I came back and said, all right, Kelly, I did it, and then we moved forward, butThat is when you’re invested in people, like the first idea of troop swap was like Craigslist in a military base and like, oh.It’s interesting, but whatever he was selling that that day, if he was selling coffee cups, pens, glasses, paper, we were investing it and then it became, um, troop ID, right? And he had all the plumbing in place, the check identity of vets, and then he, and then the big aha when he realized he could do more than vets, he could do first responders, and then he could do anybody and became like the, the premier.Uh, digital identity verification platform. IRS, I mean, when you, when

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youwant people, I have to explain to people like when you talk about dual use, it’s like when you file your taxes with the IRS, you use ID me. When you go to Home Depot or use Verizon, that veteran discount, use IDM and it’s not just veterans, it’s there’s 14 federal agencies, there’s 37 states, I mean, andThere’s all these private sector players that are using that because it’s such an incredible tool. Yeah, it’s like,

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but

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it’s,

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butit’s also the original, the earlier point like everything compounds over time. So the relationships compound, trust compounds, the ability to do the good work up front compounds, right? So you’ve led multiple series of investments in IDA. How do you think about that over time? Like, you make a first good investment in any company or first investment in any company.And then you’re like, hey, I got a winner here and I got to make a follow-on investment, or hey, I’m not so sure about that one, so we’re gonna hold off. Like, how do you think about follow-on investments? And I think you were pretty eloquent about it in Austin, so I’d love to hear ithere.

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Well, you’re right, Dan, the toughest decision is the follow on decision.Because now you have relationships with these founders, and some of them you know, like, uh, just a little bit more here and a little bit more there, and they can they can really pop. Meanwhile, you have a Blake Hall.He’s just crushing, and you have to make the hard decision of limited dollars to back the winners.Doesn’t mean you leave the other companies.On the side of the road, you still help them as much as you can, but you have so you haveNot much bandwidth as a as a human and you have limited.Capital resources, so you have to back the winners.Because, you know, that’sIt’s, it’s, it’s aTakes one, right, or 2 in a portfolio to carry the whole portfolio. So you got to have the moonshot. You got to plow the dollars behind that winner. Yeah,

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it sounds a lot, awful lot like Office strategic Capital, right? Let’s invest in the right, the right investors. Let’s make sure that we understand that the terrain that we’re in, and let’s make sure that we’re carrying the right winners forward. And sometimes you got to pick a winner. Like it’s just it is what it is, you know.

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Yeah. Hey, we’re gonna go to Warrior Q&A, right? So this is rapid fire questions. So what is the one piece of money advice that you wish you knew when you were a cadet, Craig Cummings at the United States Military Academy at West Point?

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Well, I don’t want to be too basic, but, um, my daughter who’s just finished college, asked me, like, Dad, should I be saving money? And I said, Addie.If you just try to put away $25 a week, just $25 a week.What that would compound to over the years and so.I probably should have done more of that. I, I wasn’t as good at saving, but I’ve always been good at like creating value.SoI don’t know. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve built the wealth on paper quite well, but I wish I had also like been doing this.Routine investing and would have like this huge

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you gotta make it and you keep it.It’sreally hard to do both,

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right? If you can’t do 25, 5, you know what I mean like this is one thing I’m thinking in all things in life. If you can’t do the whole thing, just make some progress, the person who makes some progress.

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What’s the biggest, biggest mistake that you see people that you wish that they knew better than?

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You know, I, I think I’ll just take from my own playbook thatInvest in things you know.

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I made that mistake. Every time you know it’s always something I don’t

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know because sometimes you, you’re like well we get thousands of deals and sometimes it’s like, especially a very compelling CO you’re like, oh my God, this thing’s going to the moon. But I don’t know anything about candy.I just don’t know anything about candy and how, but it tastes delicious. I wanna eat candy. It’s so

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it’s gluten-free

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candy, but so I would say invest in what you know.

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Yeah, yeah,yeah. How about what’s one of the most unexpected things that you learned on the journey?

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Yeah.Well, I’ll I’ll go personal for a minute because you both know lotden, right? And so my wife has had cancer twice and then andIt it it’s always been, you know, you hear it about, it’s about the journey, not the destination, and um when she got cancer,The first time. So right before, before then, you’re ready for this, she would always throw trash.In the compartment of the passenger seat. I’m like, honey, I can get you trash back.She’s like, no, it’s just I’ll pick it up later, and then more trash and then I go, oh God, I cleared the trash. Nice car. And then she gets canceled the first time.Nothing I’d rather do than pick up the trash. So like perspective, like, you know, we all have that moment that for, you know, for me, it’s been a cancer journey with her to like.Be more present, not care about the little things anymore, like the things that would drive you crazy, like really is that.Is that really important? So, and I think that’s affected me as a in everything I do personally and professionally.

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For those who don’t know, and I, I say this publicly, even when you’re not even here, I always say, you I’ll get you covered. She’s the general counsel for, uh, there in Austin, um, just, just a phenomenon being your two kids are awesome. It’s just I was just at a funeral for, um, his name was Colin Crowley, Congressman Joe Crowley’s son, a 25 year old Marine, Naval Academy graduate that just.It’s just scum to cancer. Uh, and I was there, uh, last week, and, uh, it does break your heart and you don’t know when, you know, no one knows when it’s gonna be your last day. And I know for me growing up, you know, my dad was after the navy was a cop employee for 20 years. She used to say, always my brothers I used to say, hey, always kiss your father before he leaves. You never know when you’re gonna see him again.And uh I think it puts perspective,

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yeah, and I say for those relationships that you care the most about.Just imagine for a moment you get that text message from your father, from your mother, from her sister, from her best year.LikeDon’t wait for it. Get the relationship where it needs to be. Say the things that you need to say now before you actually get that text message.

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Yeah.Well, Craig, we love you, buddy. Thank you so much for joining us and more money.

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What, what a, what a pleasure to be partnering with you guys.Inside this room and outside this room here and I,

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we’re proud to be your partner with Maha’s C. We think you guys are kicking ass and taking names and and really.Solving some of the toughest, baddest issues that our country faces right now when we compete against other countries that Franco and do our family harm. All right, well, God bless you. So, that’s our show. It’s wraps up worry money for today. So listen, subscribe, and review Wri Money on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever else you get your podcast or find us. Yahoo Finance. I’m Patrick

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Murphy and I’m Dan Kons. We’ll see you again next week.

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This content was not intended to be financial advice and should not be used as a substitute for professional financial services.