North Carolina needs to place stricter regulations on intoxicating cannabis to protect adult consumers while making it harder for minors to buy, Gov. Josh Stein said Tuesday in an exclusive interview with WRAL. He’s also considering steps to erase some people’s criminal records for minor marijuana offenses, calling them a “barrier for people’s successful participation in life.”

Stein said he plans to tackle those issues and more by launching a new advisory council made up of law enforcement officials, bipartisan lawmakers, health experts, farming interests and others. Together, he said, they’ll explore what the state’s policy should be on products that contain cannabis. Stein said he’s personally in favor of marijuana legalization, but that he wants to hear more from the people on that new council on what direction they think the state should go in.

“If you are an adult and that’s the choice you want to make, you should be able to make that choice,” Stein said. He later added: “I do not have all of the answers. I have some philosophical views on matters, but there are real, complicated, practical implications of every decision you make.”

Although marijuana remains illegal federally, about half of states have legalized it. And nearly all states have legalized medical marijuana prescriptions for certain ailments. North Carolina is among the remaining states to resist any form of legalization — although Stein told WRAL that because of the state’s lax regulations, he is concerned about unregulated cannabis products that are manufactured to get people high, regardless of laws intended to stop that.

“It’s really ironic that in some ways, the most liberal, pro-marijuana adult-use state in the country is North Carolina,” he said. “It’s not Colorado, it’s not Massachusetts, it’s not these states that legalized it and then created a regulatory structure to sell it. It’s North Carolina, where we have no rules whatsoever.”

Tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, is the main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, which is illegal in North Carolina. Hemp and marijuana both contain THC, but hemp is legal in the state because it contains THC at far lower levels than marijuana does — enough to impart some side-effects that users seek out, but not enough to get people high.

But some growers have figured out how to extract THC from hemp plants and introduce products into the marketplace touting the legal substance they do contain — cannabidiol, or CBD — but may possess enough THC to get someone high. Those products don’t face the same labeling requirements as other drugs and, he said, they’re easily available at some vape shops and convenience stores throughout the state. Some of those shops sell to minors, he said.

“It is the wild West out there,” Stein said. “The idea that we have a system where this product — which is a drug that can get you high — is for sale out there without any restrictions on how it’s sold, to me, is insane.”

Stein says attaching more regulations to the industry — including making those products available only to people 21 and older — would protect consumers while keeping the products out of the hands of minors. He said the state would benefit from a cannabis regulating agency — similar to how the North Carolina Alcoholic Beverage Control System controls the sale of liquor and requires bottles to list alcohol content and ingredients.

“What I want to do is make sure that we have a smart, sound policy response to what’s going on in the real world,” Stein said. “We’ve got kids able to buy intoxicating cannabis, THC. We’ve got adults buying it with having no idea what’s in that product.”

Stein, a Democrat, said he supports the recreational use of marijuana and other intoxicating THC products by adults — a position that is likely to face opposition from Republican lawmakers, who would have to approve its legality.

In the meantime, he said, some convictions for simple marijuana crimes should be expunged. The governor can grant pardons and clemency without legislative approval, although widespread changes to rules for expunctions could require buy-in from GOP lawmakers.

Exploring expunctions

Hundreds of thousands of North Carolinians have criminal records for things like possession of small amounts of marijuana.

“That is an anchor that they are carrying on their shoulder for the rest of their lives,” Stein said. “Because when you go to apply for a job, you have to declare your criminal record. When you go look for an apartment, they will ask for your criminal record. It ends up being a real barrier for people’s successful participation in life. And I don’t think that’s right.”

He said the state should be decriminalizing the drug at a minimum. “I want to go to the next level, where if you use it, it’s not a crime at all,” Stein said. “But for people who have this criminal record, we should have a process to expunge those criminal records so that you’re not hampered for what is a product that today is available down the street.”

Stein previously led a statewide task force on racial justice reforms, which was started in 2020 by former Gov. Roy Cooper when Stein was the state attorney general. It made dozens of recommendations — one of which was to decriminalize the possession of small amounts of marijuana. Essentially, drug dealers would still face criminal charges for marijuana. But people who are simply using it would at most be given a ticket, not criminal charges.

That task force’s 2020 report pointed to the massive racial disparities in North Carolina’ marijuana arrests, even though studies show white and Black people use marijuana at roughly the same rates.

Orange and Chatham counties have already decriminalized small amounts of marijuana, and the task force suggested applying it statewide. But the Republican-led state legislature has rejected that suggestion. So Stein is now moving to another recommendation from his task force’s 2020 report: To study the full legalization of marijuana and other intoxicating THC products for all adults, and only adults.

“I believe adults should be able to choose what they want to do, but they need to have information,” Stein said. “They need to be protected.”

With his new study group, the governor is also looking to the Republican-led General Assembly for help. Broad reforms — including any sort of statewide decriminalization or legalization of marijuana — would require legislative approval.

Legislative buy-in

In recent years, the state Senate has repeatedly voted to legalize medical marijuana. But leadership in the state House has never allowed the bill to come up for a vote.

There’s new leadership in the House now, though, with House Speaker Destin Hall taking over from Tim Moore, the former speaker who’s now a U.S. congressman. Stein tapped one of Hall’s top lieutenants, Rep. John Bell, R-Wayne, to join his new commission on marijuana and CBD products.

Stein also appointed Sen. Bill Rabon, R-Brunswick, to the task force. The leading GOP voice in the legislature for medical marijuana, Rabon credits his past illicit marijuana use with helping his recovery from cancer.

Neither lawmaker immediately responded to requests for comment Tuesday.

While Stein is in support of full legalization of marijuana for recreational use by adults, Rabon has repeatedly tried to make the case to fellow Republicans that his bill to legalize medical marijuana wouldn’t lead to full legalization. That “slippery slope” argument is a common refrain among conservative skeptics.

“That’s why I’m bringing in folks from both parties, both chambers [to the advisory group],” Stein said, “so we can have a shared understanding of what is happening, a shared appreciation for how other states are dealing with it, and then a shared strategy of what North Carolina should do.”

Polls show marijuana legalization enjoys broad bipartisan support statewide. However, its strongest opponents are the same conservative Christian groups and activists who enjoy outsize influence in GOP primary elections. Due to gerrymandering, most lawmakers in the state legislature face their biggest challenge to reelection in party primaries, not the general election.

Bell is the president of Asterra Labs, a Nash County hemp company that makes chewable and smokable CBD products. Like Stein, Bell has argued for stricter standards in his own industry. He told WRAL in an interview last year: “We want to make sure that the products we develop here are safe, reliable, and quality,” even though the state currently has very few standards or regulations for hemp products.

Stein has a history of working to protect children from products meant for adults — a theme he leaned on heavily in Tuesday’s interview.

He made national headlines when he was the state’s attorney general, leading a battle against vaping company JUUL over claims it marketed its products to kids, and eventually earning North Carolina a $40 million payment from the company to settle the lawsuit.

In the interview Tuesday, Stein said the state absolutely can allow adults to partake in marijuana and other THC products while still protecting children.

“Adults should be able to use cannabis with intoxicating THC if they want,” he said. “I do support that. But what I really support is making sure that kids cannot buy it, and by law today in North Carolina, they can. That is absolutely unacceptable to me.”